1. Extremities bicycling
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   Is it possible, this pairing? I'm new here, and I don't know whether this has yet been discussed, but I(perhaps me only)notice a giant sized similarity in vocal tone, and style, on several passages and progressions, between LADY GAGA and Kristin! It's almost as if Kristin is singing background on Lady Gaga's cuts, at times. I think of the line that ends with "right", on Just Dance, much of So Happy I could Die, and much of the second to last song on The Fame, which I forget the name of, as well as in several other spots.
   I love Kristin Hersh, having seen her 1st in the mid-80s, but I also love Lady Gaga, even though she is so popular it is impossible to be hip and underground when you admit it. Crap, she almost stands alone among popular 2010 musical acts,on top 40 radio, in that she IS talented. Rhianna is nice, and Alicia Keys, Drake, and Sergeant Eminem has his moments, but that's almost the whole list for me. These current WHITE ALTERNATIVE ROCKERS amazingly being actually promoted are completely awful. I'm going to lump them all into one big garbage bag, without regret. I USED to hear someone on the radio for the 1st time, and wonder, "Who are they?" because they were GOOD. NOW, I hear some hookless 2010 whiner rock band, and I ask, "Who are THEY? How dare the record companies sign shit like this!" It's obvious that "connections" are the biggest way to get a record deal these days, more than talent, more than ever. Talent seems to be almost incidental. I'm sure LG and Kristin share this feeling, because they do not have tin ears, and cannot be bought.
   Back to the talented LG, and the talented KH....who else sees a resemblance. I think it's a pretty funny combo, like Rhianna and Eminem's pairing on that song, whose styles seem as natural together as Hellen Keller and Donald Duck.

2. The Robster
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   I should start by saying this little community is very friendly and rather tolerant. However, I spat my coffee across the room when I read this post. Lady Ga Ga has as much talent as my smelliest trainers. She is simply the provider of endless trash demanded by an ignorant, materialistic consumer, manufactured by faceless businessmen with no respect for culture, passion or values above or beyond the monetary kind.

   LG is a puppet, like so many who dominate today's soulless showbiz industry which values image above talent, publicity above credibility, and money above quality. She spouts garbage that her money-masters have penned, whether in "song" form or for the sake of our oh-so-glorious media in handy, quirky verbal soundbites. She makes me want to vomit.

   You are, of course, perfectly entitled to your opinion, which I actually respect. (Though I actually read your post two or three times looking for signs of irony.) But in this day and age of TV talent show clones and insipid pop trash, I seriously have trouble believing that any true music lover, let alone a Kristin Hersh fan, could feel the way you do about this here-today, gone-tomorrow glam-pop-tart.

   Anyway, welcome. :-)

3. halfbornhalfmade
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   Hmm, that was a little harsh. I actually do like Lady Gaga, in spite of myself. I would never say that her music is "good", but I find it's fun to listen to now and then and I *do* agree with the original post in that she seems to stand out among the other crap-pop mainstream acts in that she a) doesn't take herself too seriously b) doesn't seem to give a shit if anyone likes her or not and c) seems to genuinely enjoy what she's doing, like she's not "putting on an act". Also, I have to say, as a female, it's nice to see a female artist who is empowered by her sexuality, rather than exploiting it for attention (i.e. Christina Aguilera) or playing it down and trying to act tough and tomboyish (i.e. Avril Lavigne) - being female is nothing to be ashamed of and Lady Gaga seems to have that figured out. So does Bjork. Also, Robster, Lady Gaga *does* write her own material. She actually began her career writing songs for other people so I very highly doubt she needs anyone to write for her. But I can totally see how you feel the way you do about her. She has quite a reputation.

   As far as Kristin and Lady Gaga, I really don't see much similarity, but now that it's been pointed out I'll listen for it.

4. conski
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   Hmm... I'm not familiar enough with Lady Gaga's music to judge that, but I can appreciate her persona.

   The problem with a a collaboration would be that K's current music seems pretty isolated and not open to other voices ~ not in a bad way.

   I just can't hear it in my head.

5. halfbornhalfmade
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   after reading this post I was inspired to go watch Lady Gaga videos on youtube... and I like her even more now. She's pretty f'in cool. Those who don't think so probably haven't really investigated... There're live videos of her on there from way back in the day, before she was called Lady Gaga, proof that she doesn't use auto tune.

6. xander
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   I only like one Lady Gaga song: "Telephone". I think it's an excellent song, sung well. I think she's a talented, creative person and someone to watch. She cares about music and art.

   Now I can understand if someone is unimpressed with her songs, but I don't understand how someone can be so angry towards a nice 24 year-old girl who's just trying to make the best music she can.

   "Ignorant", "faceless", "puppet", "soulless", "clones", "money-masters"- this is how The Robster describes mediocre performers, incompetent record sellers, and unadventurous record buyers. How bitter do you have to be to look at other people that way?

7. jmcallis
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   I actually love both K and Lady Gaga, and I think that speaks well of both of them. They're both insanely talented, but in different directions. K is a brilliant songwriter and guitarist with a piercing vision. Her music hits you in the gut, something she said in an interview somewhere. I really respect that. It's fun to read her writings and hear the story about how this vision is formed, how it's a beast she doesn't tame but cooperates with. Lady Gaga is a performer, through and through. She's into Andy Warhol, and u can see the way she uses "Fame" as her medium, in exactly the way he intended. Her music, while often only good, isn't her point. She was an art history major at NYU and knows exactly what she's doing. They both do. Enuf fanboy from me, just my 2 cents!

8. halfbornhalfmade
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   this speaks for itself, I think :-D http://www.ladygaga.com/player/default.aspx?meid=5391

9. rugan
   Member
   Posted 1 year ago #
   

   @halfbornhalfmade: wow... that was actually kinda cool.. didn't know she was that "adventurous"..

10. rugan
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    have to add though; can't see a K-connection here...

    years ago i asked K if she'd ever considered working with Lisa Germano. I don't know why that was an interesting concept to me; today i honestly can't see what good would come out of it. Both of them check in regularly to my Top 10 Albums of All Time-list, but that doesn't mean they'd be any good together.

    Having said that, i discovered Andrew Bird through "the Grotto", so I may be wrong :)

11. titleTK
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    I definitely don't see any connection between Lady Gaga and Kristin.

    Most of the people I can see her collaborating with she already has: Tanya Donnelly, Bob Mould, Vic Chesnutt.

    I always thought Kristin should record something with Frank Black. They never have, right?

    James

12. tony
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Interesting post from extremities bicycling. We all have the odd soft spot for the odd cheesy pop star. Mine are well buried these days but occasionally I can raise a smile for something catchy in the charts.

    This doesn't do it for me though. Lady Gaga (is that ironic?) may not be stupid like the Simon Cowell style wannabe's, but she is as equally exploitative of her sexuality, as Girls Aloud or Shakira. As a heterosexual male I can appreciate this, but it is not the reason I choose to listen to any artist.

    I have tried the link and watched/listened to several of the videos and finally come to the conclusion The Robster is pretty on the nail.

    The acoustic version is pretty generic fodder (blusey piano with a big broadway style vocal? more Liza Minelli than anything else) which bears little resemblance to the original electro pop version, where she follows a rigid formula that, combined with her "raunchy" image sells a lot of units. Just like Britney!!!

    Apart from "being nice" there is no reason to recommend her to this board.

    Her gender alone does not constitute strength of character. She is working in an industry and playing their game. Something Kristin long ago gave up any pretence of.

    TM, FFW & Kristin's solo work stands out from all this superficial MTV crap by virtue of its honesty. K does not follow any formula I can discern. She may take ideas from different styles, borrow from rockabilly, loan from C & W, but she always turns a song into her own.

    That is why nobody has come up with a cover version that "improves" on the original. We are lucky to have an artist this inspirational.

    There is no need to try and manufacture a non - existent link between Kristin and any other artist. They happily exist in their own worlds. Lets keep it that way.

13. ethicalpaul
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    > this speaks for itself, I think :-D http://www.ladygaga.com/player/default.aspx?meid=5391

    Looks like she took Betty's advice

14. The Robster
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Well, the words 'can', 'of' and 'worms' spring to mind. I was beginning to think I was wrong and that Lady Gaga is in fact the most highly creative, intelligent and genuine artist in the word today and that perhaps I was the only person who couldn't see it. (Thanks for the links, but I stand by my original statements.)

    It is a shame Xander had to revert to name-calling. I was only echoing the words a thousand people before me had uttered, many of them artists with first hand experience of the biz. I'm sure our beloved KH may well have used them in a similar context. I may be "bitter", but I thought the KH community was a little above playground insults.

    So, there I was feeling all unloved, then along comes Tony. Now I know I'm not alone. Thanks mate! Anyway, each to their own. As much as I cannot stand Lady Blah Blah, if you want to listen to it, that's fine. Still think she'll be forgotten about in a couple years...

15. xander
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Years ago, a friend started going to a small, close-knit church. I met some of the members and noticed something that eventually turned my friend off: some members were very judgemental of each other, saying that so-and-so wasn't a true Christian because of their clothes, or their friends, or the music they listened to.

    So someone is new to the forum, and enthusiastic, and wants to start a discussion about two artists they admire, and the first response they get is someone saying, essentially (I'm paraphrasing), I respect your opinion, and then in the next breath: I kept reading your post looking for signs of irony.
    Which is just another way of saying, What you wrote is so ridiculous I had to make sure you weren't joking.

    By the way, my original post is above on this page and it hasn't been edited. I don't think it's splitting hairs to say that I didn't call anyone any names and I didn't use any playground insults.

16. halfbornhalfmade
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Even though I've defended Lady Gaga's honor, I never said anything about a Lady Gaga/Kristin collaboration. I think the idea is pretty ridiculous. But extremities bicycling never really said anything about one, either. He/she only commented on the similarity in vocal tone between the two... which I'm still listening for and haven't really noticed.

    I also never said that just because Lady Gaga is female means she has strong character. What I meant is this: of course this is just my perception, but Lady Gaga seems to be very *confident* in her sexuality. When I see a music video of Christina Aguilera or Mariah Carey (or countless other female pop stars) they seem to be screaming "Look at me!! LOOK at me!!! Aren't I HOT? Don't you think I'm HOT?? LOOK HOW HOT I AM! Wait, let me shove my boobs in your face some more so you don't forget that I'M HOT! ...you think I'm hot, right?" and they seem extremely desperate for attention and that they have such little confidence that they need to be continually reassured that they're attractive and they seem to feel that if they don't play up their sexuality, no one will pay attention to them. They don't seem confident or happy at all. And again, this is just my perception, but Lady Gaga seems very confident in her own skin. She seems like she's comfortable with her talent and with her appearance. Even though I think I've seen two music videos of hers which include full nudity on her part, and I don't think I've ever seen a Christina Aguilera video that included full nudity, Christina's videos are infinitely more raunchy and more disturbing for me to watch because her act seems born out of complete insecurity. I feel the same way about Bjork, who has also been nude in videos, but she's just a brilliant artist anyway.

    One more thing: I think Lady Gaga may go the route of Radiohead. Arguably, the first two albums that Radiohead put out were not very good. I know a lot of people like The Bends, but I don't think anyone would disagree that after their first two albums their output became much more mature, much more experimental, much less predictable, much less easily defined. I don't necessarily think they did it on purpose but they gained a lot of airplay and a following by first releasing the more radio-friendly crap, and I kind of get the impression that's what Lady Gaga's doing (and I think she *is* doing it on purpose). I wouldn't be surprised if her musical output matures and gets a little "better" as her career continues, and I think it's already started (there's no song quite as mature as "Speechless" on her first album). She's definitely clever enough to have hatched that sort of scheme, using the game of mainstream pop for her own benefit. It already seems to me that in some ways she's making fun of herself and of pop music in general. Of course, she'll never be as good as Radiohead, though...

17. halfbornhalfmade
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    @Paul: "Sparkle"? "Lady Gaga" has just as many syllables as "Throwing Muses" :)

18. ethicalpaul
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Yep I was thinking sparkle and the eye thing

19. cak
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    I have nothing against the mainstream pop music artist being discussed here, but I don't hear the slightest of resemblances between her and Kristin. "Extremities bicycling", I applaud you for your singularity of opinion or alternately, your skill at spamming.

    <3 Chris

20. The Robster
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    @xander: Look, I don't want to turn this into a slanging match. I don't want to make enemies. People can have whatever opinions or views they wish as long as they do not degrade or demean others, or inspire violence, intolerance, hatred or prejudice toward others. I also have a right to express my opinion, as above, in as forthright way as I see fit.

    I do respect EB's opinion as much as I respect yours. The fact I completely disagree with it in almost every sense does not detract from my long-standing and deeply held belief that everyone should be allowed to express their opinions freely, however controversial they might be. In doing so, however, we must understand we open ourselves up to challenges and disputes, many of which will be equally as controversial. Occasionally, people will misconstrue, misunderstand or misrepresent. Many will be upset, offended even, by the ensuing debate. But hey, that's what it's all about. That's life.

    I've never been one to keep my mouth shut. I don't believe in it. It has made me a little unpopular from time to time, but just as I didn't enter into this discussion to make enemies, I don't say things to make friends either. However, to clarify my standing:

    1) I respect EB's opinion. Even if I think his/her points are way off the mark, bordering on silly (in my opinion!), I respect the fact that he/she believes them to be true and feels they should be subject to debate on this forum;
    2) I respect EB's - and everyone's for that matter - right to air those views and opinions in whatever manner they see fit, and to debate/argue/discuss the opinions of others in the same way;
    3) I like to think everyone here has the same level of respect. We are, after all, a highly intelligent group of correspondents with a passion for music.

    Finally Xander, friend, compadre, comrade - EVERYONE is judgemental. It's part of our genetic make-up. It is what makes us who we are. You judged me as being "bitter" in your original post (that's the name-calling I was referring to). Whatever the truth, or how others perceive the truth, you have every right to call me whatever you want and judge me however you see fit. I can take it, I've been called a lot worse. Like "music snob" and "lame"... (oh stop it Robster, stop it!!!)

    Peace and hugs.

21. sarahcryst
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    For what it's worth, Lady Gaga generally writes her own material (or shops it to others -- at least one of her singles was originally intended for somebody else.) This isn't a guarantor of quality, but it's a guarantor of having at least some input on what one sings.

22. tony
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    everyone is entitled to their opinion but...

    ....seriously, Radiohead? I would agree the first album, Anyone Can Play Guitar, is not their best work, but it was certainly laying the foundations. The Bends is actually a very good album, full of very commercial songs, yet retaining what Oasis and their ilk lacked, quality musicianship and songcraft. OK Computer was, because of The Bends, one of the most highly anticipated albums of the nineties. Nobody however, would have predicted its level of success. Then, of course, they really got serious.

    I would suggest the often quoted Madonna comparison is nearer the mark. Madonna constantly "re-invents" herself, as the press would have it, but always ends up being Madonna.

    As for writing your own songs I give you....

    Gary Barlow.

    I would like to thank extremities bicycling for opening up this topic. It's been the most fun discussion in ages :)

23. Extremities bicycling
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Despite the complete "non relate" from fellow KH forum members, I must stick to my original thoughts concerning similarities between Lady Gaga and Kristin Hersh. If anything, I think they resemble each o ther MORE now, because I listened to Gaga again, to make sure I wasn' t crazy, and now my contention is more secure in my mind.
    How are they SO different, really? For one thing, they are very much alike in the clarity of their sexual stance, in lyrics. Neither is more or less likely to enrage Donny Osmond, while he is parenting. Sure, Gagas is more basic, but sometimes it is effective to "cut to the chase", rather than be intellectual, subtle. I believe Kristin would give Gaga a thumbs up, rather than a thumbs down. Lady Gaga DOES take herself seriously, because she drops names at a powerful clip. (The all time champion at this is Courtney Love; she once dropped more names than all other performers combined ever, in just one interview.)
    I DO think there is great similarity in their vocal delivery, quite often. Listen to "Poker Face", then tell me you see NO similarity. If you had Lady Gaga and Kristin Hersh contained in one recording studio, they would CREATE. I have a strong feeling REDONE had a very large influence on the most riveting Gaga tunes, though. He will not be given credit, because he is from Morocco, I fear, here in 2010 America. But Gaga has an excellent voice, and she is a wonderful performer. It is no contest between her and the WHITE ALTERNATE fakers, who get played, but if justice was served, would only be played to get you some sleep. Speaking of groups of promoted performers not deserving promotion, I add the know it all, smartass, tiny and hookless women singer-songwriters now polluting the airwaves, who love their own tunes far more than the listener does, except if the listener happens to be a cast member of Sex in the City.

24. Extremities bicycling
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    I've got all Kristin's records, which I should remind everyone, since I'm talking so much about the her AND Lady Gaga connection. I'll give you that Lady Gaga has plumage, and Kristin normally doesn't. I must admit that for me, Lady Gaga is a happy event. I guess the thing that makes me happiest about Lady Gaga's presence is that she IS talented, and also allowed to be exposed to the masses, NOW.
    I've hinted at the reasons, for my recent(last 10 years!) musical listening depression, but I believe that it is this, in a nutshell: The current artists are the "Acceptable Replacements". Acceptable Replacements for the truly talented and censored artists. They WILL play for the troops, every time. They smile, perhaps even cheer as this country's media endorsed religious prejudice gets out of control. (And ALL religions are to blame, not just the one's we are told are.) And the record companies executives keep these lesser talents over more talented performers that don't fit the criteria. I fear that the religious prejudice I mentioned before enters into this area, too. Presenting one group as better is just as bad as presenting one group as worse. It's the same thing. Groups of us vs. you suck. And I'm expecting this post to be squashed.

25. halfbornhalfmade
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Whoa whoa whoa, I never said anything comparing Lady Gaga's music to Radiohead's. In fact what I did say is that she'll never be as good as Radiohead. All I meant was that I think she started out with the really radio-friendly crap and that now that she has a fanbase I think she'll start making "better" music, like Radiohead did. Also, wasn't their first album called Pablo Honey?

26. bferrin
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Also, wasn't their first album called Pablo Honey?

    Yes, it was. Anyone Can Play Guitar was a track on it.

27. tony
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    In the words of John Cleese, "I'm sorry I have a cold"

    Pablo Honey it is.

    Halfborn, I realised you were not directly comparing. I do get your point, but totally disagree. In a recent Q interview she admitted she is a pop artist and celebrates the fact. She values pop music as her art. She sees herself as the performance art itself. I could be proved wrong. If she does morph into a progressive artist pushing musical boundaries, instead of taste, I will be there.

    ex bike, may I call you ex bike? that last post is screaming out for squishing.

    You say you have all Kristins records. Does that include the Muses? I cannot believe you see a genuine affinity between K, who has always been a fringe artist, even when TM were making money, and the publicity machine that is Lady GG.

    Whoever your acceptable artists, or white alternative rockers are, I suspect most of the members here avoid them all like the plague and have the ability to discover music and artists so far off the mainstream radar it becomes pointless to comment.
    Having said that, today I am going to see Muse at Wembley. Where do they fall in your list? They are certainly white alt rockers, they put on a super massive black hole of a show, are accused of being, pomp prog rock. But still I love them.

    Lady Gaga eat your heart out.

28. The Robster
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Muse wear their influences on their sleeves. They started out being Radiohead clones (and not very good ones at that - I saw them in the back room of one of my local pubs in Devon waaaaay back in the day) and have become a Queen tribute. Nothing wrong with that - I like them too - and they don't hide the fact. LG is trying to be Madonna (and not a very good one). We'll see where she goes from here...

    I fear EB has a chip on his/her shoulder almost as big as mine, except his/hers is directed squarely at the mainstream. I'm not against the mainstream per se - some acts become mainstream by accident, some flirt with the mainstream, and others strip naked, wave their bits in the mainstream's face and scream JUST DO ME NOW!!! The first group often manage to carry some dignity with them as they rise up the fame ladder. The second group probably care about retaining some dignity but are prepared to play the game just a little to get themselves noticed. The latter group never had any dignity in the first place.

    Am I waffling again...?

29. halfbornhalfmade
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    Of course Lady Gaga celebrates her pop music and blah blah. I don't necessarily think she'll start doing anything too experimental or edgy (like Radiohead), but her song "Speechless" is NOT a pop song. I actually find it hard to believe that a song like that appears on a best-selling mainstream "pop" album. Robster mentions Queen in the same post that he says Lady Gaga is "trying to be Madonna", and of course I'm biased but it appears to me that Lady Gaga is not trying to do anything at all. She's just being herself. I really don't see so much of a similarity between Lady Gaga and Madonna to warrant the constant complaints of Lady Gaga ripping off Madonna's style. Did Madonna even write her own stuff? Does she even play an instrument? Lady Gaga's influences are David Bowie, Freddy Mercury and Andy Warhol (her stage name came from the Queen song "Radio Gaga"), and "Speechless", as well as new songs of hers she's been playing live all sound quite Elton John-esque to me. David Bowie wore crazy costumes and tried to shock people and played fun, dancey music, is what Lady Gaga's doing really so different?

30. moschops
    Member
    Posted 1 year ago #
    

    I don't see much in the way of similarity myself, but I do think that while most of Lady Gaga's stuff isn't really my thing, she's certainly one of the more interesting pop stars of recent years.

    And much as I wasn't proud when I found myself humming Poker Face to myself, I've got to say 'Telephone' rocks my world to the extent that I've downloaded about 45 minutes worth of different mixes of it and have listened to the lot in one go.

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