Home » Forum » Kristin Hersh

31. BillyO
    Fearful Leader

    @petrolboy: All great stuff, thank you. The immediate concern for me would be the difficulty of accounting and organizing pay-outs...we're a very small operation. Also, there is, I believe a legal issue with this investor scheme because of the implications in the world of stocks and securities. I know that at CASH, Donita had to deal with a mountain of paperwork because of these legal issues. Still, I know what you're thinking and am intrigued by the possibilities.

    More to the point, I've been considering the Strangel situation and have been interested in discussing some of my thoughts, questions and ideas with those of you in this forum - as it IS a forum after all.

    The Muses record should be able to be made...and I'd hate for Strangels to pay any extra, as we feel that you do enough already...the question is, how do we cast a wider net and get more people involved as subscribers? There are many, many people who still have no idea what Kristin is doing on this front. We hear from folks via Facebook and Twitter all the time, who say, "I'd love to help out, just tell me how!"

    For Kristin's part, she feel like she's hitting people over the head with this info already. But maybe not...

    LOTS more to discuss...soon.

    Posted 4 months ago #

32. jediroller
    Member

    I think part of the problem is that many artists who go DIY want to go it alone. Everybody is reinventing the wheel in their own little digital corner. Part of it, I'm sure, is just down to egos and/or, for lack of a better term, marketing. "I'm a brand name in my own right, I don't need to be mixed with So-and-So's, I've got my own fans who'll fund my own records and that's that." I think that's (at least partly) why relatively high-profile artists, who could do a lot for the visibility of CASH, prefer to venture out there on their own (I'm looking at you, Amanda Palmer).

    Not judging anybody's choices here, mind.

    Another, more cynical view (and as such, I feel that I should resist it) would be that they're only doing it to gain media attention and will be happy to fall back in the arms of "the industry" when they've made enough noise to be considered "bankable". I'm always struck by the overwhelming sense of "But my music is so wonderful, I want EVERYBODY in the whole world to like it, like they should. Oh, and if I get rich and famous in the process, so be it."

    One thing I love about the Strange Angels system is that it demonstrates, with beautiful simplicity and humility, that an artist does not need "most people" - who, as we all know, have shit tastes anyway ;) - they just need "enough people".

    Posted 4 months ago #

33. muser
    Member

    @Billy - The CASH page exists, K tweets about it, some of us retweet, there's links on the facebook page.. I know all that is out there already.. but. People need an incentive straight up - the incentive IS there but you have to click on the CASH and Strangels pages to find out what it is (apart from the obvious of just supporting an artist you love).
    Basically, a bit of overt marketing is needed. Become a strange angel subscriber and straight away you get access to unreleased demo material, live tracks, blah blah. STRAIGHT AWAY! Also - it's cheap as chips for direct access to your favourite artist!!!! It should be plastered on K's facebook, and plastered on the CASH fb page.

    I believe there are many people that love K's work and follow her on twitter and check out her facebook but have never followed the links back to the CASH & strangel web pages. People are inherently lazy these days.

    And of course there's nothing like a special deal to get people signing up - an added bonus that only the people signing up in say, december, get. New subs in december will get a special download of Kristin singing 'Deck the halls'. Well... not really, but you know what I'm saying?

    Posted 4 months ago #

34. ClaireT
    Member

    A bit of a diversion from the chat about finance...just wondering what kind of production K's going to go for on the new album? I love all the Muses albums, that goes without saying, but the last one buried so much of K's amazing voice in the mix.

    My preference is a cleaner sound, a bit more "Limbo" - any inside info on how K's thinking of producing the songs, Billy?

    C x

    Posted 4 months ago #

35. Silverfrown
    Member

    ClaireT said:

    I love all the Muses albums, that goes without saying, but the last one buried so much of K's amazing voice in the mix.
    

    this sentence rounds up what i was trying to say in a post earlier, about how in a way i would love a "more produced sound" than the last time. i enjoy the self-titled's non-stop fierceness but i would love to hear the Muses in the context of subtleties like "Limbo" or "University" again (of course not repeating a certain sound, but looking forward in that path).

    Posted 4 months ago #

36. halfbornhalfmade
    Member

    wow i completely disagree.

    i feel like when Kristin's songs are presented in an overproduced environment, the flawless transitions end up sounding forced and trite. but upon hearing the same songs in a rawer, more stripped down context (solo-acoustic for example) the listener is allowed to hear the songs transpire in the way they were meant to - the real essence of the song, existing as its very own entity rather than being smothered by any glossy production.
    and who decided that vocals always need to be above the mix? is the guitar, or any other instrument, for that matter, less important than the vocals? especially when talking about music like Kristin's which features such brilliant instrumentation.
    the under-produced sound of the self-titled album, power+light and the grotto is so raw, so HUMAN - the listener can really feel every single nuance of the composition, the listener can "feel" fingers on the fretboard, the feverish intensity of the throwing muses/fippy songs and the quiet, melancholic beauty of the grotto's songs. i'm afraid i simply can't say i feel the same for limbo, university, sky motel, etc. - even though the songs are, of course, just as wonderful, the production is lacking in human-ness. personally i would love to hear another raw throwing muses album, but of course it's not a decision for any person to make - as Kristin says, "the songs tell you what to do."

    Posted 4 months ago #

37. Silverfrown
    Member

    i see your point, and i want to state that "The Grotto" is my favourite of all Kristin's albums and i love the description that you've made of its sonic/sensitive universe, with which i completely agree.
    i don't think, though, that production on a record like "Limbo" is lacking human-ness; i mean, it's not like it's overproduced -something that i think that can't be said about any of the Muses albums. it's just something about the guitar textures that make those records (or the first two as well) really addictive. it's hard for me to explain cause english is not my mother tongue. but i don't think that the production of "Limbo" is hiding anything or making it less-human; it's a record that's based largely on a clean-timeless guitar sound and you can clearly hear the inventiveness of every single guitar line and arrangement, and that's in a way similar to what's so great about "The Grotto". gosh, it's hard to explain! :D cause in any way i don't want this to be interpreted as i'm saying "they should be doing this/ they shouldn't go there", it was just an appreciation. i don't dislike a raw production; i was just imagining the possibility of the band doing something quite different from the last album, which i'm sure it will be cause they never released two albums that sounded the same. but you can see in Kristin's songs for CASH that she's constantly investigating with sounds, she's just as creative i that field as she is with songwriting, and she has said many times too that *production* is only dangerous when you put too many make-up on the songs.

    and i, as well, agree when you say that it's something no other than the artist can decide

    i don't think that i managed to explain it very well, but i tried :)

    Posted 4 months ago #

38. halfbornhalfmade
    Member

    it's interesting you bring up the first two albums - i could never describe either of those as being "overproduced," yet they're definitely not nearly as raw as the self-titled... i can't quite put my finger on it. that human-ness that i kept describing is definitely palpable on the debut, for instance, and even on hunkpapa. which just brings me to the thought that there are so many possible textures to explore in musical production that it hardly seems reasonable to dilute it with descriptions. oh well. we'll see what happens! i'd like to make a point of saying that i feel so incredibly fortunate that my life will once again be blessed with a new throwing muses album, and i know i'm going to love it regardless of what type of production treatment it's given. good luck to Kristin, Bernie & David (and maybe Tanya?) !!!! and i do hope that it becomes a new CASH music project, funded by strange angel subscriptions.

    Posted 4 months ago #

39. AyUaxe
    Member

    Cosimo Matassa is still alive and kickin, I think.

    Posted 4 months ago #

40. KennyM
    Member

    I've always thought K needs to shout a hell of a lot louder about the fact that 50'~ did the free downloading thing long before Radiohead, and that CASH is a one-of-a-kind project that may well be leading the way in how music is going to work if the record labels can't find a way to re-jig their business model. The subscriber-model of record production has been done by other artists and it's worked. There's no reason why a vast mail-out to everyone in the world can't attract enough attention to make a new Muses record possible. Really, this is one of the most important bands of their era, and yet they had to split up because they can't afford to be a band any more. If that's not a sign that the music business is broken, I don't know what is. Send out emails to everyone on the mailing list explaining that there's a new record to be made but no money to pay for it. Write to every music magazine to tell them the tragic story of the Muses album that couldn't be heard without starving the Narcizo family. Tell everyone who hears the story to pass it on to someone else. The power of social networking is strong. If enough people start Tweeting about this on a regular basis (and there are surely enough Muses fans in the world of music as well as the world at large to form some kind of critical mass), the scale of the discussion becomes a story in itself, so that publicity becomes self-generating.

    The squeaky wheel gets the grease, and the band that raises the most hell gets the money. If you Tweet it, they will come. ;)

    Posted 3 months ago #

41. Steve
    Member

    I agree with Kenny. Kristin may feel that she is banging people over the head, but I think the opposite is true. If I had a pound for everyone I have spoken to who claims to love Throwing Muses and Kristin's solo stuff but has never heard of 50FOOTWAVE then ...er... I'd have about seventeen pounds, now. You know what I mean, though. We all need to shout louder, I think...

    Steve

    Posted 3 months ago #

42. halfbornhalfmade
    Member

    Steve's comment about people who have never heard of 50FOOTWAVE made me realize something which I feel is relevant to this conversation...

    I'm a musician, and an avid music lover/appreciator. I went to school for music, and have spent my whole life surrounded by people who also claim to be music lovers/appreciators... and I have only ever met ONE person who had heard of Kristin, TM or Fippy. (He had heard of and listened to all three, in case you were wondering.) Literally, everyone else who I have ever mentioned Kristin's name (and the band names) to had absolutely no idea what/who I was talking about... Not even an "Oh yeah, I've heard of them but never really listened to them"... and not even a lie!

    Once in college I had to do a presentation in front of one of my classes, and the topic I chose to discuss was Kristin and her work. I began the presentation by taking a poll, I asked them to raise their hands if they had ever heard of Kristin Hersh, Throwing Muses or 50FOOTWAVE, and the one aforementioned person was the only one whose hand was raised. This is in a MUSIC SCHOOL, mind you, and a fairly large class. Maybe I'm living in some sort of weird alternate universe because you all seem to know other people who listen to K's stuff. But I mean, I've met my fair share of those people who consider themselves really cool because they have hugely huge music collections full of bands no one else has ever heard of, and I swear, only ONE of them knew about Kristin.

    I hope this isn't a depressing post, and I'm not trying to imply that K/B should be marketing her stuff better, I just thought I should share my experience.

    Posted 3 months ago #

43. ethicalpaul
    Member

    It may not be as bad as it appears to you, 1/2born1/2made, mostly because of your youth and the probable youth of many of your peers.

    If it makes you feel better, when I mention K or TM to fellow old fogies like myself who were in college in the 80s and conscious of interesting things, the majority of them know who I am talking about.

    Try some people your parents' age or a bit younger and see what they say :)

    But your point is well-made and well-taken. Too few people know what we know.

    Posted 3 months ago #

44. halfbornhalfmade
    Member

    ooh, good point Paul. I hadn't even thought of that.

    Posted 3 months ago #

45. Pegasus
    Member

    Paul,

    Not sure I agree with you re the age thing.

    I think quite a few people of my age (second half of my 50s, unfortunately), had our minds opened by growing up in the '60s with the whole political and counter-culture stuff.

    A lot of us continued to be into good, inspiring music as time went on - we didn't just stick to the music that we grew up with: Beefheart, Hendrix etc.

    Myself and a friend of a similar age (in our '30s at the time) both bought the Muses debut album within a week of it coming out - and I've never looked back!

    Oh, and I'm still into Beefheart!

    Posted 3 months ago #

46. halfbornhalfmade
    Member

    Pegasus, I think what Paul was saying is that people my age (20-somethings) are less familiar with Kristin than older generations.

    Which, as I said, I think is probably correct... But after re-thinking it, I've realized that IT SHOULDN'T MATTER, because Kristin, Fippy (and soon to be Muses!) are STILL making great music today, so why should the older generation, the people who were around when TM made their debut, be the only ones (I mean the majority) who know about Kristin's work?

    Posted 3 months ago #

47. ethicalpaul
    Member

    Hi Pegasus-

    Yours was a cool generation. As halfbornhalfmade surmised, I was talking about Kristin's (and my) generation vs the current generation.

    I'd be happy to be wrong though! Find 20 college grads aged 40-45 and find 20 college students aged 18-23 and see which group has heard of TM :)

    Posted 3 months ago #

48. whizzboom
    Member

    Just catching up on forum posts... I was struck by what Kenny said about the pre-Radiohead aspect of the FFW story. I managed to slip it into everything I wrote about K and the band when I was writing f/t for the Boston Herald, Phoenix, Stuff@Night, In Newsweekly, Orlando Weekly, etc. People seemed to dismiss it - as if it didn't matter as much because it was justKH as opposed to Radiohead. I also attempted to stimulate press interest in publicizing P+L about this time last year - of course I mentioned it early-on in the press release I authored, but again... very little reaction. And then there was the tremendous resistance I encountered about a 26 minute mp3 download. People pretendthey want something new, something innovative. But it seems like when we come right down to it, what they really want is the comfort of that which is familiar - a 12-14 trk proper CD full of 4 minute songs. They don't want to have to d'load anything. Plus, I still think there's a stigma in giving stuff away for free - that subconsciously folks believe it to be inferior... another can of worms entirely. As a recovering music critic, the main crux of my P+L press campaign was a storyline that linked the 3 aspects of K's music career together and presented her simultaneously as a veteran and a leading innovator. Plenty of press peeps wanted to talk to her, but very few of them were actually interested in mustering the patience for the music itself - draw your own conclusions. It was one of the most frustrating things I've ever been through.

    Insofar as the new TM music is concerned, of COURSE this community will somehow make sure the music gets recorded and released. Billy - I wonder if you'd encounter the same legal problems by using "The Point" - it's an online fund-raising device. I took a tip from the KH model and raised my rent with it one month not too long ago. Contributors only get charged when the goal is reached and then a check gets cut w/in a wk-10 days later.

    Later y'all.
    -Chris

    Posted 1 month ago #

49. Viking
    Member

    So psyched for the new Muses tracks. Just got a TM tattoo because their music has been with me for 25 years now. It's a lifetime, always with a soundtrack of Kristin's songs. TONS of love and gratitude. Jayson

    Posted 1 month ago #

50. dollface
    Member

    Show us, please!!

    ...Go on, show us your tatt, Viking!!

    Posted 1 month ago #

51. sparksoffyou
    Member

    @ethicalpaul.... I am a 21 year old college student and trust me when I say that usually my first question after "What's you name?" after meeting someone is "Have you heard of Throwing Muses?" I have only ever encountered one other person my age who has heard of (and this person had actually seen) Throwing Muses. You make an excellent, and depressing, point.

    Posted 1 month ago #

52. ethicalpaul
    Member

    Thanks for your story, sparks. I always like to be right, but I would sure like to be wrong about this!

    But I do always see a few younger folks at every concert and that's good.

    Keep spreading the word :)

    Posted 1 month ago #

53. KennyM
    Member

    Further to my earlier point, I got chatting with a friend who works at a fairly major UK newspaper who seemed fairly interested in the whole Kristin/Muses/CASH issue. Billy - is it cool to direct her to you to set up an interview? She can't really go to her editor unless she can be sure she'll get concrete material out of you guys. I figured it would be a sure thing, but I thought I ought to check first.

    Posted 1 month ago #

54. BillyO
    Fearful Leader

    @KennyM - Of course...always happy to talk - send her to me.

    And THANK YOU!

    B

    Posted 1 month ago #

55. ellen
    Member

    Oh my gosh, I only just noticed that Sunray Venus is on the CASH page, how long has that been there!? I don't remember to check all that often, wish I wasn't at work I wanna listen!

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

56. BillyO
    Fearful Leader

    The next one's coming soon...can't wait.

    Posted 3 weeks ago #

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