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  • Posted by BillyO 1 year ago. There are 32 posts. The latest reply is from adrian.

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  1. OK, granted, I'm asking you for academic purposes...but I'm genuinely interested too.

    In the music marketing class I teach at Loyola University in New Orleans, I've told my students that they can ask their current "customers" or "listeners" or "fans" what, specifically, is their particular value proposition of their music enterprise.

    This made me wonder what kind of feedback I'd get if I put the question to you people...so here goes:

    Why Kristin? The music world is full of singer-songwriters and bands but what do you get from Kristin that you don't get from anyone else? In other words, and in your opinion, what's Kristin's "competitive edge"?

    I so appreciate any time and/or effort you put into your answer...and thank you in advance!

    xo
    B

  2. This probably won't be much help, but here goes-
    I don't know, for me it's just a gut feeling. Just as there are lot's of different singer/song writers out there, so there are lots of different "listeners" out there looking for something that pushes their buttons.We all like different stuff. Her music just moves me the way other music doesn't.I didn't make a choice to get into her music, it just happened, i just had to.I wish i could give you a list of reasons(voice,guitar playing, arrangements,lyrics,emotion etc), but that would be pointless as there are other artists that put similar effort into their music but don't do it for me.
    I don't think i can put a specific value on my emotional attachment to Kristin's music.I suppose i am a customer of hers and any body else i buy music from but for me music is so much more than a commercial transaction.I'm afraid i can't tell you why "Your ghost" can sometimes bring a tear to my eye or why "A loon" sends a shiver down my spine. Music is part of my life - so much more than just background noise or lift music.
    Hope that makes some kind of sense!

  3. It's always been the honesty that has come through to me. I started to listen the Muses back in '87 and Kristin's music has grown along with me. Although I don't know Kristin personally, she has let us into world more and more. Each time she does something new, I always want to say, "of course, this is the next step." She has never tried to trick us or tried to become famous. It's been a great personal journey for me. Other artists seem too far away...

  4. I guess if there's one thing that sets Kristin apart for me, it's that her music is so thought-provoking and, at times, challenging. If the Top 40 garbage is the musical equivalent of a McDonald's drive-thru, then Kristin's music is a carefully prepared meal at that little exotic restaurant tucked into the corner of the strip mall. Kristin is one of few musicians today who still treats music as an art. Today, most of our society expects art to be interesting and thought-provoking- to ask you a question and leave you to figure out the answer. We expect it from poetry, from visual art, from theatre, novels, sculpture, films- but sometime in the recent past, music disappeared from that list. Kristin still treats her art and her listeners with respect, and it shows.

    But even beyond the intellectual appeal, there's the "gut reaction" (literally) that dickie mentioned above. I know when a piece of art is honest and real when I have a physical reaction to it instead of trying to pick it apart and analyze it. Kristin's songs have always done that for me. When I saw her for the first time at the Bell House in Brooklyn and she started playing the first few notes of "Sno Cat", I remember actually feeling my stomach drop and my heart rate slow down. "Cathedral Heat" makes me drowsy, "Fever Few" makes me dizzy, "Delicate Cutters" makes me shake. It sounds unpleasant, but it takes me out of my own chaotic brain for a while and tells me that I'm not alone. It's surprisingly therapeutic.

    And finally, she's just such a nice person. It's unfortunately rare to see someone who is a great artist and yet friendly and down to earth. There are lots of artists whose work I fell in love with, but eventually I lost interest because they were either non-responsive or openly hostile to their fans (I'm looking at you, Bjork). Kristin's interaction with her fans deepens the artist-listener relationship and makes the music that much more special. And since I'm a Strange Angel, I'm invested in the music, both personally and financially, so it's incredibly rewarding to download her latest work and know that I helped make it.

  5. I don't think you can pick the type of music you love... the same way you cannot pick your family and the same way you cannot pick the person you fall in love with. I personally like Kristin's music because it's the music I love. I can't not like it, I can't not listen to it. There are plenty of talented musicians out there, there are plenty of honest musicians out there and there are plenty of musicians on the market that play the genres of music I enjoy the most. Rare do all of these attributes come together in one band, in one artist. In addition to Kristin, i would consider the Pixies, the Smiths and REM to be some of the other bands that fall into this category for ME.

    But I relate to Kristin's music more, I need to hear it more, I get anxious when I go too long not listening to it.

    I don't think I chose Kristin's music, I think her music found us and grabbed us by the ears and shook us and said THIS IS WHAT YOUR MUSICAL ADVENTURE WAS LEADING TO.

    As a perk to being a fan of Kristin, I have music for any mood I might find myself in. If I am frustrated and just want to scream, I put on 50footwave. If I want to be contemplative, I'll listen to Hips & Makers. If I want good driving music, I will put on Limbo. Having Kristin's whole catalogue eliminates the need for other music.

  6. The short answer is that K&Co have always made irreplaceable sounds that I could never get anywhere else. The long answer:

    Hmmm. I recall getting to love music, "pop" or "rock" or whatever, as a youngster, and then suddenly getting very bored with "radio". Luckily at that time this great groundswell of all sorts of "not-normal" or everyday music appeared - the punk and post punk era I guess. I was out on the prairies, but we had a very cool town for art and music, and CBC. So I had all this new music I learned, Cramps, X, Elvis Costello - God, who knows, a million crazy little bands. Amazing. Still, well into this - 87 - I can still vividly recall putting on The Fat Skier and being simply gobsmacked. I had no idea what it was going to sound like, other than a few adjectives from a trusted friend. And it's just kept coming. Yes, it's technically and intellectually interesting, challenging, but I think about that later. When you listen it just "is", and it grabs you in the gut. That's what all the good stuff does - grabs you by the scruff of the neck and just takes you - whether it's folk, honest to goodness "rock'n'roll", jazz, whatever, the good stuff of whatever genre. Listening, an old-fashioned description would be "gifted", and as we learn more about the history, and the process, it seems more apt in this case than the usual generalization. A gift that is carefully (but not too carefully) passed on, - with a lot of work and passion. And never crap - some things may work better than others, but never crap. It's been fun with all the old stories and retrospective lately, but what makes even listening to the old stuff so much better is the knowledge that new stuff keeps coming, that it's "vital". So, as a supporter, all I can say is that when the opportunity comes, say like the new TM tunes being put together, I would say that to take advantage of the new "model" - relax and go for it. I like it to be crazy, to be taken on the latest adventure. Listening (especially to old TM) often is like "oh God this can't work out, oh man ya,it did, just, I can't believe that hung together, so cool..." etc.

  7. This is going to be long. And I'm drunk and probably not as eloquent as I should be for answering such an important question.

    I am a musician, and I think that's why I love Kristin's music so much. She has an amazing gift for writing these ridiculous guitar lines that are dissonant and not very easy to play and also don't sound like the kind of thing that one hears all the time, and then she'll somehow manage to throw these achingly beautiful, I mean heart-wrenchingly gorgeous, perfectly poetic lyrics over top of it, with a perfect, somehow catchy melody, and it seriously blows my mind every time that she is able to do that. I'm also a big lyrics guy, and her lyrics are the perfect mix of beautifully poetic and wry and witty. Like she's not taking herself too seriously but she's also not making a joke out of it. I also think the fact that I'm a young fan has helped, because Kristin has such a huge catalogue at this point in her career and when I started listening to her I had a lot of catching up to do, and the more I heard, the more in love I fell. Even though I do believe that a first-time listener can hear an album like The Grotto for instance, and be sucked in by the sheer beauty of that record, I don't think it really dawns on people just how insanely fucking brilliant Kristin is as a songwriter until they listen to, like, EVERYTHING that she's done, because then they'll realize how versatile she is. It's also very important to me that my favorite artists are those who are eclectic. I can't stand listening to musicians who write the same song over and over again, but Kristin's definitely covered a lot of bases. I also love how genuine Kristin is. She and I have talked about songwriting and we both view it in similar terms, like we both believe that songwriting shouldn't be tainted by thinking, like we just let the songs happen to us instead of thinking about what they should sound like. When I talked to her about this, she said something like "It's so refreshing to hear someone else say that!" which is exactly what I was thinking. I also love her standpoint on sharing music, as I too believe that music is not a product that should have a price tag on it... I'll probably read this later and wish that I had said something better.

  8. ok, good question!

    this is probably gonna sound brutal, but here we go.

    I don't care about the music beeing 'intellectual'(in fact i would hate it if that was the case). I don't care about honesty. I don't care about Kristin beeing a nice person(not as a consumer at least).

    I like it because it is "dumbed down" but longlasting. I like it because it is multi-edged (A gut roar seldom becomes as hard hitting without beeing accompanied by a whisper. Kristin does this although lately she has been insisting on keeping roars and whispers on seperate albums). I like it because the lyrics speaks with my stomach and not my brain.

    so basically it is all about doing good songs....everything else is fashion and idon't care much about fashion. However, i believe many consumers do (or at leats did)...After three or four albums artist will inevitably find themeselves out of fashion, and then the only thing that can save a recording artist is good songs. to this date kristin has succeeeded in consistantly delivering new good songs.

  9. I never choose Kristin's music, it choose me. I believe her "competitive edge" would be that once you hear something from her you need more. Almost like an addiction. You want to hear everything she's ever done and will do in the future. She never disappoints you so you never lose any amount of faith in her abilities to put out a great song/record.

  10. Yeah, the addictive quality is definitely a factor for me, too. I started listening to her in the summer of 2008 and those next few months of going through her entire catalogue were incredible.

  11. There would be so many ways to go further in-depth to answer this, but the words that immediately come to mind are: intelligence, integrity, and interaction.

    I won't dwell too much on her actual music, because it goes without saying that I am consistently engaged by various aspects of what Kristin creates/records. But the "competitive edge," to me, is a purposeful engagement with people on a micro level, as well as macro, in an honest, transparent way. No matter how much one knows about K's musical output, it's clear that she is interested in interacting with listeners (and readers) and actually communicating in a two-way process. That in itself is rare. Add to it a commitment to her craft and a tireless creativity to make sure she can continue to make and distribute music, and the end result is that you feel like you're part of a big experiment--one you ultimately benefit from.

    Maybe it's a form "relationship marketing," but when an artist fosters relationships with listeners in multiple forms (in person, online, offering music for remixing, etc.), it certainly makes you wonder what's next...and hang around to find out.

    Oh, and she's just really f*&%ing funny. ;)
    M

  12. I guess it boils down to the "not lying" thing. So my short reply would be: Honesty.

    And bloody good music. Have you heard that woman play guitar?

  13. You know, I don't think I can really answer. Why do I like bread? It just tastes good. OK. I can answer. It started out with Not too Soon, and then University. It just sounded good. I liked it. But over the years the experience of listening is richer from coming to know more about Kristin and the other people involved in making the music happen. The back story holds my fascination. Everything about it (and her) is genuine. The lyrics are heartfelt; and the way they come together with the music for Kristin, is like magic. I can hear it and I can feel it.

  14. Kristin is one of the rare artists who can bring me to tears ~ often on first listen of a song.

    Deep Wilson, Torque, Candyland, Skeleton Key, Close Your Eyes...

    The exhilarating, complex and endlessly interesting music keeps me coming back.

    Finally, her unusual accessibility gets my financial support beyond just buying albums. She's just so worth it!

  15. What is Kristin (as an artist) so honest about? and what are other artist so dishonest about? Idon't get it?

    I think to some, one of the competetive edges kristin has is the fact that she is a well kept secret. we who listen sort of become a "special" group.I sometimes wonder how many of us would stick around if kristin started to sell lots of records? I am just curious. I struggled with this when i was younger. I preferred if my favorite bands didn't become too successfull....it didn't have anything to do about them being less honest or losing integrity...More that i didn't want to share the music i loved with people i didn't like

  16. music and lyrics tell a story. sometimes we relate to it and somtimes we don't.
    I have at times been moved to tears because of stories her songs tell, because they seem to intertwine themselves with events in my life that I can relate to....I have difficulty expressing thoughts and feelings that I have and sometimes her songs do it for me.

  17. I thought I was going to try to answer this, but the more I think about it, the more I realize I'd just be repeating what everyone else has been saying. Every single response thus far is also at least, if not entirely possibly true for me as well. Just about every song Kristin has ever written, Crabtown being my only exception, resonates with me in some way. I don't always know why, but I know it does.

  18. Well, back in 86 when I was 19 I went to the Kentish Town & Country club to see the Cocteau Twins, supported by Throwing Muses and Dif Juz on the Lonely is an Eyesore tour. I can't remember if I got the first TM album before or after this gig. I am a loyal Cocteau Twins fan and it's the link with 4AD that brought me into contact with a lot of fantastic music. I started a forum on here before about how people got involved, I missed a lot of years, life got in the way, and it was only when I was going through my record collection and converting over to CD that I realised it wasn't a couple of years that had gone past but over 20. So K's solo stuff was new to me as well as the later TM's. That's all remedied now, and I have caught up with the releases and added them to my collection. As to why Kristin, she is one of many, I don't know all the words to the songs or what they're about, I don't need to. As a loyal Cocteau Twins fan you kind of get by with not really knowing what a song is about or the words and just go along with the flow of things. I'll go through phases of playing only TM's, or Cocteau Twins, Lush, The Sundays, Pixies, Breeders, Wolfgang Press, Dif Juz, Primitives, and the list can go on, she's definitely in my top 3, The Cocteau Twins will always be my number 1, but quite simply I can't imagine a life without music, my kind of music that is, I fully back the slaying of the pop charts and if I ever see a Spice Girl I will run them over. I know it's been thrown back at us before that it's yourself and Kristin who are the grateful ones but I don't agree, It is us who are grateful and that's how it should be. For some reason I've got different tunes off Murder, Misery and then Goodnight wobbling round my head at the moment, oh well let's face it, those who either have never listened to K's music or don't like it are missing out but we should take pity on the culturally retarded and treat them with the contempt they deserve. Can't imagine music without K's input.

  19. It's been said over and over in different ways, but i feel like I should chime in. For me it's been about being presented with a challenge.

    In Rat Girl, K talks about TM being 'spinach.' I LOATHE cooked spinach, so I would've probably chosen to go with another hated veg-type-thing that I've somehow become fond of (like sprouts), but the analogy rings true regardless. When I was writing full time, I often referred to 'blues' (in it's simplest form) as the 'liver on your plate.' For fans of most pop music, blues just doesn't have the hooks/pleasure pockets they go to music looking for. It's an acquired taste, although for whatever reason, I took to Throwing Muses with minimal kicking and screaming.

    The music almost never goes where you think it will - and it never has. That's not to say there isn't any sameness in the KH catalog. But the songs seem to steer her just to the left or right of where your mind guesses or anticipates she'll go... it keeps you on your toes. And there's always new stuff to find in the music as a result. For years I had a big issue with Red Heaven. But the writing, phrasing and imagery have remained curious enough to me that I've continued *trying* with it for 18 years and have recently come to love it... because I finally found some 'new stuff' in it that allows the song cycle to make sense to me in ways it didn't before. People that don't understand that sort of payoff are never going to find their way to/through K's music.

    Initially, I was drawn to the outrageous outbursts, bird sounds, bizarre images and undercurrent of mental illness (which I could sense was not the least bit contrived from the get-go, well before the press was talking about K and bipolar, etc). The suite-like song structures and shifting time-signatures followed close behind, which (I discovered) made the prettier, more melodic moments stand out even further. It's the sugar on your grapefruit. Like people that enjoy the most pleasure only in relief from pain, that's the contrast that cemented the deal. And I've never been one of those "twist my nipples till I say the safe word" types... TM might be the exception.

    I also love the fact that K's music is not appealing to just anybody. You can't put her in the background - the music won't tolerate it. So, you're probably not going to hear Kristin at restaurants and bars (although I did know a woman who used to spin Hips and Makers during her bar shifts) which, I think, helps preserve the music's integrity. I don't have to share it with my ignorant neighbors, the other bozos on the bus, tasteless thugs, etc. Call me selfish, but the fact that there's a limit to how large the audience gets keeps me happy. And I could probably continue feeling that way even if she could suddenly fill 2000 seat halls in the US - but not beyond that. I remember some friends telling me about seeing TM open for REM in hartford and all I could think was "GOD that must've been awful." It's too personal... But I don't mind sharing the music with other devotees. We're esoteric and specialized and have a mutual appreciation for something rare.

    I can work with that. And I'll always find a way to pony up some dough for that.

  20. 'Anything-but-suck.'

  21. Y'know - just looking over my comments, I could see how someone would think I was intimating that Throwing Muses play the blues. Yes and no. But the point was more about having to work at/learn ways of extracting things from the music.

  22. I like music that challenges my received definition of music and song. Throwing Muses 1st album truly sounded completely alien to me, but in a totally unpretentious and undeliberate way. Those four musicians seemed locked in on a musical vibe that no one else in the universe seemed to share. But they weren't obnoxious about being different either. There's a delightful naivete in the music to me, as if they thought this was what all rock music sounds like and they're just playing along, and then they were slightly embarrassed to discover it wasn't, but still confident enough to keep playing. I'm not saying that's what Kristin, Dave, Tanya & Leslie were really thinking, that's just what the music sounds like to me. And I was thrilled so much by that. I didn't get the music or the words but I loved the sound of it. (Though I have such a soft spot for the "MTV hit version" of "Dizzy" and I miss that song so much. Kristin, please sing & play it again someday.)

    I don't know that I would have bothered listening to Kristin's solo work if I wasn't already familiar with her, but seeing how she translated her performance style with the Muses into a solo approach was permanently enthralling. The bold gaze when she sang with a band became an intense, piercing stare; her weaving head when not singing became a hypnotic snake dance; her acoustic guitar playing seemed to make up for the now-missing band. I have a mental Youtube clip of the first time I saw her perform
    "Sundrops" and her sliding chords more than filled in for the strings on the record.

    I cannot identify precisely what makes Kristin's music (with and w/o bandmates) exciting to me except to say that no matter how many times I've played the songs that appeal to me the most, I continue to discover subtleties I hadn't noticed before. And other songs that don't appeal to me quickly for one reason or another, I know enough to keep listening and before long I catch something--some hidden rhythm, a curious arrangement, the overall structure, a backing harmony, a turn of phrase--that makes it click and it becomes a new favorite.

    And this is weird but I like the fact that I can never remember the titles of most of the songs (because I never look while I'm listening). Maybe because Kristin taught me that a song doesn't have to have a hook or refrain or a chorus or something that makes it marketable. It just has to be real.

    Not to say that there are no other artists who make music this way, just to say that this is what I like about Kristin and in my listening, she (and the music she makes with Dave, Bernie, Rob, and others) is unique.

  23. I use Kristin's music for self introspectional theropy. I continually relisten to songs/albums, and find new meanings which I use as a mirror to look at myself.

    I'm more comfortable with stating "why I connect" rather than what is the "competative edge"

    When I listen to the lyrics I hear a voice contemplating it's own journey.
    When I listen to the music I feel the emotions of life's imperfections alongside the beauty of it's blessings.

  24. I feel that Kristin "gets" me.

    For lack of better phrasing, I'm a little fucked up in the head, and K's a little fucked up in the head, and even though our experiences aren't totally in-synch, I feel that I can understand where she is coming from. Kristin doesn't mince her words, she's brutally honest, and that's where it is.

    Plus, she wrote a song with the lyrics "It reminds him of blow jobs, that he's a queer" - it's the little one (or two) liners like that that really showcase her brilliance.

    Oh, there's also the kick-ass guitar work, too.

  25. It's about the music. If it wasn't great I wouldn't be here. I truly appreciate the honesty of the community and the sharing of ideas, thoughts, etc. However, if Kristin didn't write great songs and wasn't a highly accomplished musician I don't think the other pieces of the offering would be enough to get me to "buy-in".

    I'm more of an observer in this setting so perhaps that is why I'm so definitive that it is the music.

  26. Hi Billy
    Met you in Portsmouth UK last year...I was the only one in a KH T with my request written in gold letters.

    Kristin hasn't got a competitive edge - that's the point. If things had turned out differently, she'd be just as happy singing in a field whilst picking cotton. I understand why you asked the question though.

    That leaves us with the notion, 'if it isn't a competitive edge - then what the hell is it?'

    Some years ago it was called 'soul' but in some ways that is not particularly helpful, especially if, like me, you don't go with religious stuff. And of course that adjective then be a noun to describe the genre that is 'soul music'. No satisfaction there then. I suppose being a scientist, and I know Krissie would appreciate this, we need to go to the 'core' of what produced the music to be able to define it.

    In Rat Girl Krissie tends toward the idea that rather than her finding the music, the music in fact found her. Now again, there is difficulty with this, unless of course you're in with the psychic crowd who would call this some kind of electro magnetic impulse wave form that K was able to tune in to. I'm afraid I don't hold with that either. My own view is that it is auto psychic cognition: K went through a period in her life when music was so important to her, that her mind not only communicated to in language, but also in color and music. This kind of thing is not uncommon in people who go through the experience of tunnelling and flying that is BAD (bipolar affective disorder).

    So, K is putting to music her deepest and most intense feelings and experiences in the same way a poet would. Furthermore, just to complicate matters, K is also a poet. In fact, rather unusually, Krissies lyrics are either better or the same, but never worse than her music. In conclusion therefore, Kristin's music touches certain listeners in a similar way to those who follow classical (for want of a better word) music in that it also affects people in a deep and intense way; for example the way a Mahler adagio might. But it doesn't end there, because the lyrics are so deeply entwined in the music...absolutely inseparable. If there is any hint of dispute about this, try listening to 'surf cowboy' with other words - it just doesn't work. So the poetry (because that's what it is) works on a different but similar plane. Anyone who appreciates Kristin's music therefore gets a.....

    DOUBLE WHAMMY....

    Like a 3 dimensional piece of music; an intense new vocabulary of art or poetry that thrills your toenails. Whichever it is, if I believed in genius - that is what I would call it, but I don't. But whatever it is, it has nothing to do with competition, value or trade bananas, but everything to do with integrity of personal communication that is kind of primeval. It is raw, unadulterated beauty!

    I apologise for the length of this reply. But be honest Billy...Its a pretty loaded question!

  27. The song, "Hook in her head" is complicated musically, competently realized, hard rock. The mixture of elements in the music is a treat for the mind. It's like suddenly understanding a new language. Exciting and original. Bowie's older work is the closest parallel that can be drawn. It's inspired and not boring in the least. Almost every song on this album has merit. It's true blue, quintessential rock. Intelligent music. (A review I left about The Real Ramona)

    Yes, and the words are not used in the usual sense, simply, sculpted music strung together without self-censorship. If we tried to analyze The Grateful Dead's lyrics, we'd be vexed.

    These musicians use words as hooks, on which to hang notes. Tapped into something beyond molecules for sure.

    Kristin is a delight. Brilliant and humorous. I wish the best for her and her fam.

  28. All I know is that Kristin's work moves me like nobody else's does. The incredible body of work she has produced (and continues to produce), for me, is unparalleled by any other artist. Almost every artist seems to have a rough period and at least a few dodgy albums, but Kristin is amazingly consistent.

    I love that she is so down to earth and unassuming as a person, but that when she performs she is like a goddess or being from some other planet or plain! I love her ideas and her ideals.

    She's got a heck of a lot of "wow!" moments for me. She is incredibly dexterous and gifted as a guitar player and has her own unique and distinctive, instantly recognizable playing and writing style. And that voice! Her words are just absolutely compelling to me.

    She's a name I can (and always do) trust.

  29. great question, i often think about what would draw people to kristin's music, and largely agree with the things listed in previous posts.

    while we're unweaving the rainbow... my two cents is that kristin is the saleswoman for ugliness and chaos, which she packages as sound art. so there's no surprise that her songs aren't slapped all over the radio and your local pizza hut. Usually, people actively avoid being surrounded by reminders of how gritty and profound the human condition is. but this is the exact appeal for KH listeners. Her songs serve as a nebulous transfer of qualia, saturated with negative capability, that capture otherwise neglected shadows - both psychological and visceral, of existence.

    plus i haven't heard anyone else use the word micron in a song. as a vaccinologist she gets a zillion bonus points for that.

  30. For me it's all tied in with what I felt the first time I saw the Muses play in 1988. Unlike anything I'd heard before. Exhilirating in ways I didn't fully understand (like with any good art I later discovered). And since then it's been a happy coincidence that all the elements you need to respond to; songwriting, soundcraft, voice, guitar playing, lyrics etc. have all hit a spot. I'm as critical about Kristin's stuff as anyone else's so it really is spooky how I've liked pretty much everything in what she does as much as I do. As already mentioned it must be because of the honesty that always comes through. Oh and she's just so damn likeable in person.

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