1. tony
   Member
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   I am beginning to believe TM are jinxed. I have just noticed the "rush" release of the single disc version of Anthology is due for 7 November. This will leave just 3 UK & Irish shows before the band fly back to the states.

   (good move 4AD, do not actually press enough copies of the album, then schedule the release of the single disc, AFTER most of the euro/uk tour)

   Do the promoters and record company not want to make any money? Or are they already ahead , so don't care now.

   I shouldn't wind myself up over these things, but as another thread has made clear, we are so emotionally involved with TM and Kristin that it is like having teeth pulled to see what appears to be very inept attempts to raise the profile of the band, at a time when x factor contestants are filling the charts.

   As has been suggested elsewhere, as a Strange Angel, I feel you should ask us to help more when tours & releases are imminent. It is to our benefit to get these things to a wider public. We gain by seeing the funding improve, and hopefully benefit from more frequent releases, or raising enough to remaster the earlier albums in full.

   It would not be an imposition. Most of us here would take huge satisfaction from being involved and our long term love affair with the band finally reap a just reward.

   Just saying.....

2. Alistair
   Member
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   If it's released on the 7th, then that means it's already good to go. Am 99% certain they'll have it in Amsterdam on Tuesday!

3. Alistair
   Member
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   Oops, Amsterdam is today. It starts....

4. Alistair
   Member
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   Apologies Tony, I was wrong :o(

   From the Amsterdam thread:

   "Merch: only some cool memory sticks with Anthology, bonus files and a live video."

5. BillyO
   Fearful Leader
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   see my comment on that thread. t-shirts will be there.

6. tony
   Member
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   I'm hoping 4AD will get their act together and get some CD's out for the UK dates at least. Personally I feel they were possibly caught by surprise at the speed the deluxe set sold out (how many were pressed exactly?). That will teach them to fall down on their duty of care to their artists.
   Sorry to hear Billy has to play catch up. I am going to the opening two shows in Bexhill & Shepherds Bush so will have to hope TM can afford to come back next year.
   The flash drives sound very interesting, bonus files!!!

7. halfbornhalfmade
   Member
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   Throwing Muses are an underground band. I understand your frustration, but when you make comments like "raise the profile of the band" and "get these things to a wider public," I wonder what exactly you're driving at. At this point, I don't think anyone (the band, Billy, the record company, most of the fans) is expecting Throwing Muses, after 20+ years making music, to suddenly gain a huge audience and start getting played on the radio. It's not that I don't want Kristin and co. to make more money, but I think it's fitting that a treasure of a band like this one is something we all get to sort of keep in our back pockets. I think Kristin makes more money from Strangels than she does from sales of 'Anthology' or perhaps even ticket sales. I'm pretty sure I can say, after hearing Kristin talk about this kind of thing so much, that she wants fans like Strangels (I've heard her call them "substantive listeners") who are going to be around for the next release, rather than people showing up at the shows because marketing ploys tell them to. I've also heard Kristin say, more than once, that she doesn't want a wider audience and she would rather keep narrowing down her audience until it's only people she likes. She has a very devoted, cult following, and that's as it should be. I think all is right in the world. But if I woke up tomorrow morning and Throwing Muses had suddenly become trendy and were on MTV, I think I might vomit. We all know that's not the place for them.

8. Marcel
   Member
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   Well said Laura! I absolutely agree with you: the Muses aren't for 'the masses'... And I believe the band members (not just K) feel that way as well.

9. jmcallis
   Member
   Posted 6 months ago #
   

   agreed halfborn. I'd love them to be rolling in cash so WE get the music, not so it's dumbed down for a larger audience. Which right now would mean a lot of awful auto tune anyway. University and Limbo were a great moment of TM's aesthetic matching what was pop music at the time. They had that moment, as brief as it was, and were lucky for it. Now they get to just be artists making what they want. I for one can't wait for the new TM release. It's gonna be one of their best!

10. BillyO
    Fearful Leader
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    Well said, Laura...and all of you are such careful and sensitive thinkers. Thank you.

    After agreeing with everything you've said, I should add that the band still aspires to reach great numbers and a wider audience. If there were 100,000 Strangels in the world, we'd like to reach them. If Paradiso could have sold out again, we'd have wanted that too...But not at any cost.

    We'd like to continue attracting listeners whose values align with ours (after all, why else would someone listen?) but the band certainly doesn't want to become a fashion choice. For Kristin music is love and medicine. For her music is fine art (as opposed to entertainment.)

    Would they like this fine art to be wildly popular? Yes. Do they need that to happen in order to feel like "successes" in the world? No. They world is not the entertainment business. Their world is the world of fine art.

    I think a worthy movement can and should be formed around the idea of Rock Music as Fine Art. Think about it. Why is this wonderful art form required to associate with commercial concerns, beer, fashion, nightclubs and late nights. Would we require that of Jackson Pollack or Paul Klee?

    xB

11. atomicTheory
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    Ya, I've often said that if there were justice, Kristin would be lighting cigars with 20's.
    But I mean for what she does now, not that it all should change. Merely a human justice issue :)
    Nothing I can do about that except happily continue to pony up my sad little research stipend to
    K and the gang (and annoy my friends with stories and "do you ever listen to?"...)

    @B: That strikes a chord. I traveled to see TM at the Bowery, and yes, it was a big dark hall and I
    drank beer out of a plastic cup and jokingly argued with strangers about who came further, all pretty
    standard "rock setting" cues. However, since I traveled I made a NYC weekend out of it, and not to
    make a NY commercial, but I'll say the key words for my excursion would be a blurry
    "Kristin/Muses/Gish/de_Kooning/de_Havilland_Mosquito/de_Saint_Phalle/OWS/Anton_Feir, and that it all
    goes together seamlessly. High quality, irreplaceable moments and experiences, burned into the brain.
    Makes perfect sense (and I'm pretty sure Jackson Pollock drank his share of cheap beer...)

    If leaving that flash drive on, well, what was just somebody's bumper was my little
    accidental performance...too funny.

12. BillyO
    Fearful Leader
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    Oh! The flash drive!

    It was on Dave's rental car bumper...and he has it! I didn't know what it was...I'll have to ask him if he still has it. Hah!

13. atomicTheory
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    Man, I guessed right. I guess my email didn't make much sense. This is hilarious.
    Anyway, if it ever turns up, it's just some local flavour from back in the day,
    and old unheard of fave thought he was going to personally "save rock and roll",
    but is now a part time bartender... :)

14. brightyellowboi
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    I've NEVER thought of Throwing Muses as an underground band, I seriously don't understand why they weren't / are not huge. In my eyes they kinda were (I'm very naive) but this was & still sort of is my thought process; everybody knows & loves 4ad right? The Pixies are huge & they supported TM!, Everyone knows Belly! They traced back to Muses & then loved them right? Throwing Muses were on The Word, everyone watches that program & everyone who is anyone plays on it... The shock I got when I realised TM weren't so well known was devastating.
    Of course I know I'm in the minority with those views and that probably everyone reading this will have similar thoughts. It IS great we have almost intimate access to an amazing musician who is like a fine art, and as much as we all want K & all her projects to do very well we also kinda want her music all to ourselves? Personally I can't wait for some sort of 'moment' like the Pixies had with Fight Club where they suddenly go big ( but still suitably cool ) and we can all go "Throwing Muses? What took you so long! I've loved them for years"

15. tony
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    Seems a couple of my comments have been taken way out of context. I clearly would never wish K to have to compromise her art in any way, however there is room to "raise their profile" above the current level. The current shows would obviously benefit from better promotion. Also continuity, after 8 years the more casual listener has probably forgotten the last release. Unfortunately you have to accept that not all of us have the time or attention span to keep track of every band we like.

    Recently the funding issue reared it's ugly head again, and all I was trying to say was, take the financial constraints away and the art will benefit. Sadly we do not have a Satchi to sponsor the band so it is up to us, and as Billy said, in these hard times Strange Angels are suffering financially too, and perhaps their subscriptions are down their list of priorities.

    The perfect solution is to encourage more fans to become Strange Angels but that means reaching them and that means publicity. Not all publicity is bad or else K would completely refuse interviews and PA's.

    If TM & K remain in the underground space they currently inhabit, I will be happy to continue my support, but how much nicer would it be to see them acknowledged for their true worth. This does not, in todays market, mean selling out. Just reaping the kind of reward other non commercial artists seem to achieve and there are plenty of bands out there operating under the radar but still reaching their audience.

    Cashmusic was exactly the sort of innovative step needed to sustain K's career, now we maybe need another innovation to make the self sufficiency permanent. As others have noted, we have a lot of talented people here prepared to offer more than financial support. Time to take advantage of their generosity?

16. tony
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    okay, well I just spammed half the Radio 1 dj's about the tour & anthology. what's the worst that could happen?

17. halfbornhalfmade
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    It's funny, brightyellowboi, that you said "everybody knows & loves 4ad" "The Pixies are huge" "Everyone knows Belly!"

    Not where I come from. I realized when you said something about The Word that you might be from the UK...? Perhaps that's the difference. I live in the US, and I'm a musician. A lot of my friends are musicians. I went to school for recording and met so many people who are avid music listeners. Do you want to know how many people in my life I have met (not counting people on this board or at Kristin's shows) who had heard of Kristin/TM/FFW? ONE. One person. And here, many people don't know 4AD, and yes, a lot of people know Pixies, but no one really knows Belly, either. All of these bands are considered underground where I come from. I think it's a difference in cultures.

    As far as your saying "we want her music all to ourselves?" I just have this to say: I think this is what Kristin means when she speaks of "substantive listeners." It's not that I don't want anyone else to listen to her, it's just that I want the right people to listen to her. People who appreciate the music rather than just putting it on in the background at parties or using it to show off how cool they are because they know an obscure band. It's the ones who appreciate it that become Strange Angel subscribers. It's like tony said: "after 8 years the more casual listener has probably forgotten the last release" and that's just it. I don't think the casual listeners are where the money's at, at least in K's situation.

    tony, I apologize if you felt attacked. I didn't mean to make you feel like I thought you were insinuating they should "sell out." That's why I said "I wonder what exactly you're driving at" instead of accusing you. Also, this statement of yours made me chuckle: "how much nicer would it be to see them acknowledged for their true worth. This does not, in todays market, mean selling out" - Selling out is the antithesis of being acknowledged for true worth ;-)

18. Pegasus
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    I must say I don't agree with some of the sentiments on here. If there is an artist (in whatever artistic field it may be ) whose work moves you and you think is of great worth you don't want to hide it and keep it for yourselves, do you? Surely you want to spread the word, and make others aware, and if mass acceptance comes to that artist then maybe there's hope for mankind!

    I've never understood this "long live cults" attitude.For 40 years whenever I've had visitors to my house I've played them "Trout Mask" - era Beefheart, I've never thought this is for the few. Let's turn as many people on to a type of playing music that was and is truly revolutionary. It's not meant to be locked away and meant for the cognoscenti only.

    The same with K. The music should be brought to the notice as many people as possible. If they don't "get it", fine. If they do, so much the better.

    And if K. is on MTV playing what she does now - what's the harm? Those who will benefit will be the kids who listen to and understand the music (and a sign that MTV is changing!).

19. Cup
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    All I know is Throwing Muses is my favourite band and Kristin is my favourite musician. I discovered the Muses in 1989. I didn't own one of their albums until 1993. So I was late on getting into the music. But I was only 15 years old in 1989 so that's not too bad. Plus, I'm from Northern Ontario and I can assure you there were not many people who knew about them up here back then nor today.

    I have to say though, later on in the 90s when I started to get all the albums I felt like I had heard this music when I was a younger person. I feel as if I was cosmically connected to it as a child. Perhaps while it was being made. Anybody else? Like many of you, I often have dreams where I see Kristin/Tanya/Muses and hear Kristin's music. I had one just yesterday morning. Woke up and put on '1983 Demos'!

    I truly believe over time people who seek out good music will be discovering TM, KH and 50'. Their audiences will only increase. So there will be more fans for sure. The only reason why they're aren't as many new fans already is because music in general has lost its popularity with people. Especially the youth. They have so many other bad distractions. Texting, Internet, Facebook, Guitar Hero/Rock Band, UFC, etc. that they can't be bothered with music. They don't buy music. The most they'll do is download it which is okay too. And the music market is saturated with so many bands these days. Way more than ever. Most of them unlistenable.

    True rock & roll lovers will eventually find their way to the Muses. We are a special breed. I personally don't think anybody that is a really bad jerk would be able to stand the Muses so we can all feel quite safe in that regard!

20. tine
    a hopeless addict
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    yes, Cup. These songs are energies and I totally think it's possible to feel them before they really exist - that's where the familiarity comes from. Happens to me a lot, actually.

21. Cup
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    I thought so, Tine!

22. BillyO
    Fearful Leader
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    This is a great conversation...and I do hope that my comments weren't seen as misunderstanding yours, Tony.

    Make no mistake, we'd LOVE to find true and abundant sustainability for this music. And it requires monumental organization, strategy and resources to get to scale. So Tony may be on to something in suggesting that we tap other human resources to achieve some of what we need to do.

    Maybe the new innovation will be to somehow share our goals and overall strategy and "crowdsource" some of these management functions via a structure that acts more like a movement. We should continue to speak these thoughts...

23. halfbornhalfmade
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    @Pegasus: As far as "you don't want to hide it and keep it for yourselves, do you?" I already explained what I meant in my last post, and I stand by it. As far as what you said about having visitors to your house and playing them Beefheart, well, that's people you're having over to your house. You wouldn't invite someone you think is a jerk to your house, and therefore wouldn't play them Beefheart. As far as your statements about mass acceptance coming to a great artist and that meaning there's hope for mankind, and if K were to be played on MTV that would be a sign that MTV is changing - these are nice ideas, and if either of them were the case, I would have to agree with you, but I think we can all agree that both of these sentiments are pretty idealistic and (unfortunately) unrealistic. I'm a cynic, and my standpoint comes from the fact that the people I've met who don't/can't appreciate great music (and don't want to) largely outnumber the people I've met who do. Therefore I can only assume that's the same general ratio among all people. Again, I live in the US, and I get the feeling that the ratio might be a bit better in other cultures.

    @Cup: "I felt like I had heard this music when I was a younger person. I feel as if I was cosmically connected to it as a child. Perhaps while it was being made." YES! I'm a younger fan, and didn't discover Muses until much later in their career (after they'd made their last album, in fact) but I definitely had the feeling, when listening to TM and KH albums for the first time, that I'd heard the songs before, but not exactly. I knew I'd never heard them, but it was more like... I'd *felt* them before. I was being born when they were releasing 'Chains Changed' and 'The Fat Skier' :-)
    I also completely agree with your statements "I truly believe over time people who seek out good music will be discovering TM, KH and 50'. Their audiences will only increase" and "True rock & roll lovers will eventually find their way to the Muses. We are a special breed. I personally don't think anybody that is a really bad jerk would be able to stand the Muses so we can all feel quite safe in that regard!" Amen.

    But getting back to tony's original post, and in light of Billy's last post, let's do it! And by "it" I mean "the new innovation." I have no idea what it could be, but as tony said, I'm here to help in any way I can. Let's brainstorm.

24. tony
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    Good debate. I would say I have learnt to not take posts on any forum personally. Particularly transatlantic ones where the language barrier makes for some hilarious misunderstandings. Please feel free to pour your hearts out, that is why I keep coming back here.

    I feel the difference of opinion here may well be based on the fact that a UK label signed both TM & Pixies. Therefore both bands were embraced this side of the atlantic and attained a level of respect beyond that on the US side. The UK label, as has been widely stated, seemed to understand the band & dealt with the issues of the independant music market far better than their US counterpart. This, and the fact we have had a vibrant festival scene since the late sixties, helps smaller bands to establish themselves and maintain momentum when they are largely ignored by the mainstream.

    We also have the much maligned BBC, who have no financial constraints and can also afford, in fact are obliged, to give airtime to minority interest and cultural groups. Individuals such as John Peel have been able, often against the prevailing wind, to champion the underdog, and the english do love an underdog! We can never underestimate his particular influence on the UK music scene.

    The comments about feeling the music before you heard it, this is because, as K says, good music is nourishing to the soul, bad music is equally detrimental to your well being. You think you know it because your soul craves it. (I am not a philosopher so my words may be clumsy)

    I am convinced there at least as many potential Strange Angels out there as already subscribed. Imagine if we could just double the number! What if we could quadruple them? I am not so arrogant (really, I am not suggesting anyone here is arrogant) to think my taste is so exclusively good that nobody else will "get" TM. Quite the opposite, if I like them, WHY am I in such a minority. I love Radiohead, REM & Muse too, so my tastes are not particularly introverted.

    As for the new innovation, yes, let's throw up some ideas. Perhaps a wider exploitation of the established social networks? Mob texting?

25. Cup
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    @halfbornhalfmade That's so cool! No other music has had that affect on me. Actually feeling/sensing it before I heard it. I totally know what you're saying. Honestly. That's what makes it so special.

    Sometimes I hear women singing in my dreams too. And I think I know who they are when I wake-up. It's totally possible that these people could be practicing/performing while I'm sleeping or even singing in their own minds. Psychic powers are amazing!

26. tony
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    would it be poor etiquette to post a tour link to Pixies Facebook page......

27. brightyellowboi
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    Going back to the band being jinxed, I've just been chatting to a club promoter who runs an alternative 80's/90's night in Manchester (TM mentioned on flyer) he had no idea that Throwing Muses were playing in his city next weekend?! I've asked him if he can make a poster & display it, because I'm thinking the more people go see them, the more music & tours we get right??! Anybody good at diy poster things? It can only be a good thing if everyone who lives in a city TM are playing, puts up a poster..

28. tony
    Member
    Posted 6 months ago #
    

    we should also be harassing the local press. My local newspaper's coverage of the music scene is pathetic compared to the space they give to the same handful of eateries repeatedly week in week out.

    Okay, much as I might like to, I can't eat the Muses (although I am convinced they would be highly nutritious) but we can email, write, shout out in the street? if that might flog a few extra tickets.

    these are university towns so get down your student union and pester them to put up a poster.

    I used to sell at record fairs and had an agreement where i put posters around the city in return for a free stall. Everybody wins. If you ask nicely and smile, you will be amazed how many stores, venues and Student Unions will allow you to place adverts in their locations. Cheap easy and very rewarding

RSS feed for this topic

Reply

You must log in to post.